I thought I would take a break from my conversation with my skeptical friend (he hasn’t written back yet). It is a fun time to be in RI – the rains come down and down and down and down. I’m lucky that I haven’t had much water damage (aside from a leaky roof), but many others aren’t so lucky.
Last week I attended my General Board orientation for the American Baptist Churches/USA. From what I could gather, there are three or four entities floating around, under the name ABC/USA but not having much purpose for connection. There is the office of the General Secretary (OGS), which acts as the presence of ABC in the ecumenical and interfaith contexts as well as in the world (they do other things, but that is a good summary). There is the Board of International Ministries (BIM) which works with foreign missionaries and ministries. There is the Board of National Ministries (BNM) which is focused on ministry here in the States. Finally there are Regional Ministries (RM) which coordination work of the churches and ministries in geographic (kinda) regions. Four different entities all vying for dollars and support. They are all connected through the local churches, but not connected to each other.
Here is how I see it – both BIM and BNM are connected to OGS for the sake of identity. If either board loses its connectional identity with ABC it will be difficult to have continued support from the local churches. OGS needs BIM and BNM in order to speak to ministry that is actually happening. Yet there is no real connection between BIM and BNM – at least thus far. While there are moments of collaboration, they are not necessarily connected. Why is this a problem?
Think of the Trinity. In the Trinity there is a mutual indwelling (perichoresis) between all three parts. Because of this no one part of the Trinity is above any other part of the Trinity. They are all equal.
In the ABC model, it would not be unthinkable for one part of the triad to elevate above another. Or, if one becomes weak, the others would not necessarily have to help. This is not a new problem. It is a problem addressed in 1813, in 1907, in the 60s and continues. If we cannot find a way for BIM and BNM to be necessarily connected, it will continue to be a problem.
Finally we have RM. This is another difficulty that I have not given a lot of thought to. We could move to a quadrilateral or continue the triad with the churches in the middle. I have to think about this for a bit.
Regardless, we have a mess on our hands which is not a bad thing, but could be better.
Wednesday, March 31, 2010
Monday, March 29, 2010
Of Reading Scripture and Self-Defination: Continuing the Conversation
The conversation with my skeptic friend continues with my response:
It sounds like you should keep wrestling with your relationship with Catholicism, considering your quandary with children. Say you do have your child baptized to appease your family, what then? Will you be there for first communion? What about confirmation? What will you tell your child when he or she asks why you are not involved in the Church? I don’t mean to suggest a level of guilt, but more to consider the implications of your actions. Infant baptism, as I understand it (because we Baptists do not practice it), is a time when the parent(s) are speaking on behalf of the child as to matters of faith. If you find it important to maintain relationships with your family, and if you do not want to be disingenuous with your children and yourself, then you should continue to struggle with these questions. I’m suggesting that you should find a way to justify a continued relationship with the Church, but that you find a place where you can be authentic on as many levels as possible. It is good to work on this now before the issue is real. I know to may parents who ignore the issue until the child is born and the choice is forced. That is just my two cents, you can do what you want with them.
Now, onto the fun questions. First, as to the nature of the church as a place where one defines oneself as who they are not. I think this is the nature of most (if not all groups). My brother used to describe High School pep rallies as moments when a group of kids would gather together and hate a different group of kids. Democrats and Republicans spend a lot of time saying why they are not like each other. When I lived in Dayton one of the ways they described themselves was by saying that at least they weren’t Springfield Ohio. I think it is a matter of perception. I could describe the Baptists by saying how we are not like others (no bishop, no Pope, no infant baptism, etc.), or I could describe the movement with positive attributes (we have local church autonomy, priesthood of believers, adult/believers baptism, etc.). Neither is wrong. I think you are picking up on what is very often the norm, describing ourselves via the negative. This is not something to be proud of, and I think a symptom of human nature. I’m sure there are a number of sociologists who have looked at this group identity theory in greater detail.
As to the Bible, you are asking a great, great question. First, I don’t think you can read anything literally (except maybe phone books, dictionaries, and legal documents). Can you imagine reading O’Neil, Joyce, Hemmingway, or Dante literally? We take it for granted that there are layers of meaning embedded in the text.
Second, we need to remember that the Bible is a collection of different genres of literature. We would not read creation stories in the same way as we would read a listing of law, or a letter from one person to a community, or stories of people struggling to be in a relationship with God, or songs. A literal reading, at best, is closed-minded, and extremely problematic. I would recommend Kathleen Boone’s book The Bible Tells Them So for a great literary criticism of literal reading (she uses Stanley Fish – whee!).
Yet there is the problem of reading the cannon as a whole. Here is my take. The Bible is a collection of stories, experiences, rules, songs, and reactions of a people trying to understand their relationship with God. These are told through different genres, by different people, and at different times. Yet, I would contend, that they are focus on the same God. Chew on that for a while.
Finally, a great book on a literary/narrative criticism of the Old Testament is Robert Alters’ The Art of Biblical Narrative. Secondly, the scriptures you referenced don’t hold much water and is a forced reading of staying within the text via a literal interpretation.
It sounds like you should keep wrestling with your relationship with Catholicism, considering your quandary with children. Say you do have your child baptized to appease your family, what then? Will you be there for first communion? What about confirmation? What will you tell your child when he or she asks why you are not involved in the Church? I don’t mean to suggest a level of guilt, but more to consider the implications of your actions. Infant baptism, as I understand it (because we Baptists do not practice it), is a time when the parent(s) are speaking on behalf of the child as to matters of faith. If you find it important to maintain relationships with your family, and if you do not want to be disingenuous with your children and yourself, then you should continue to struggle with these questions. I’m suggesting that you should find a way to justify a continued relationship with the Church, but that you find a place where you can be authentic on as many levels as possible. It is good to work on this now before the issue is real. I know to may parents who ignore the issue until the child is born and the choice is forced. That is just my two cents, you can do what you want with them.
Now, onto the fun questions. First, as to the nature of the church as a place where one defines oneself as who they are not. I think this is the nature of most (if not all groups). My brother used to describe High School pep rallies as moments when a group of kids would gather together and hate a different group of kids. Democrats and Republicans spend a lot of time saying why they are not like each other. When I lived in Dayton one of the ways they described themselves was by saying that at least they weren’t Springfield Ohio. I think it is a matter of perception. I could describe the Baptists by saying how we are not like others (no bishop, no Pope, no infant baptism, etc.), or I could describe the movement with positive attributes (we have local church autonomy, priesthood of believers, adult/believers baptism, etc.). Neither is wrong. I think you are picking up on what is very often the norm, describing ourselves via the negative. This is not something to be proud of, and I think a symptom of human nature. I’m sure there are a number of sociologists who have looked at this group identity theory in greater detail.
As to the Bible, you are asking a great, great question. First, I don’t think you can read anything literally (except maybe phone books, dictionaries, and legal documents). Can you imagine reading O’Neil, Joyce, Hemmingway, or Dante literally? We take it for granted that there are layers of meaning embedded in the text.
Second, we need to remember that the Bible is a collection of different genres of literature. We would not read creation stories in the same way as we would read a listing of law, or a letter from one person to a community, or stories of people struggling to be in a relationship with God, or songs. A literal reading, at best, is closed-minded, and extremely problematic. I would recommend Kathleen Boone’s book The Bible Tells Them So for a great literary criticism of literal reading (she uses Stanley Fish – whee!).
Yet there is the problem of reading the cannon as a whole. Here is my take. The Bible is a collection of stories, experiences, rules, songs, and reactions of a people trying to understand their relationship with God. These are told through different genres, by different people, and at different times. Yet, I would contend, that they are focus on the same God. Chew on that for a while.
Finally, a great book on a literary/narrative criticism of the Old Testament is Robert Alters’ The Art of Biblical Narrative. Secondly, the scriptures you referenced don’t hold much water and is a forced reading of staying within the text via a literal interpretation.
Wednesday, March 24, 2010
The Skeptical Reply
My friend the Skeptic's response - some very powerful and personal comments and thoughts:
I think you're right about identifying the source of our differences. I have always thought of "church" as "The Church," a hierarchical institution. When I was younger and trying out a few other faiths, I was literally mystified by groups like the Quakers, who seem to be the opposite of the Catholics in terms of rigid structure and centers of authority. You raised a perspective I don't often consider, that the "church" is just the people assembled.
Of course, I readily admit my problems with the church and religion are very personal and run deeper than an intellectual argument.
You mentioned how I felt when the abuse scandals came to light. Part of me was relieved. I always thought of priests as arrogant, generally weird men who -- among the dozen or so I had come to know on a first-name basis from childhood through about age 16 -- seemed a little different and kind of frightening to me.
I know three priests personally involved with sexual inappropriateness with children (I heard them say things that, if a teacher had said it to a child here in 2010, a teacher would probably have been suspended or investigated). When I started typing that sentecne I typed "one priest," but before I finished typing two more popped into my head. Now I'm thinking of men of my father's generation who were educated by priests and subjected to severe physical abuse, against which they were powerless to defend themselves (if you strike a priest, only the bishop can forgive that sin, we were taught -- no I'm not kidding).
When the abuse scandal started to emerge and people started to realize just how many priests were pederasts and bullies, I felt humiliated about the respect and deference we were taught to show them, and angry about the arrogant condescension I heard in homilies for hundreds of Sundays of my childhood condemning such sins as not going to church regularly, eating meat on Friday during Lent, or coveting your neighbors' goods. Physical abuse and torture committed by the clergy apparently wasn't as grave as these sins.
The other hypocrisies of the church then became more obvious to me and more difficult to ignore. This coincided with the end of my teenage years, beginning college, and generally questioning everything the way you do at that age. My favorite was always -- Blessed are the Poor, says the pope, from the throne in his castle in his own private country filled with priceless masterworks of western art. I was chagrinned I hadn't really given it much thougth before.
I guess like many people my choice became clear -- try to change the church from within, ignore the many evils and injustices the church is responsible for or tolerates, or leave. The church never seemed to need me, I was always told that you belong to the church because it's your duty (basically to stay out of hell). Once I stopped believing, I had no more need for this.
Now --- after my screed about hypocrisy, here's an interesting thing. One of these days I hope to have children. And when I do, my father is going to want my child to be baptised in the Catholic church. I know this because my sister who feels similiar to the way I do, just went through this process with her daughter. Will I do it? I might. Because the church doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's been such a part of my life and family traditions that I might be faced with the choice of having a harmonious relationship with my family or standing up for my principles. I really like my family, so after all this I may yet just hold my nose...
I guess my questions and skepticism follow two branches of thought: One -- that churches, as insitutions, are groups that I have come to associate with people who are fearful, judgmental and bigoted, and they use their membership in a church to justify their sour feelings toward people who do not share their views. Catholics against Jews, Lutherans against Catholics, Black churches vs. gays, any fundamentalist group vs. intellectuals, Muslims against non-muslims. Membership in a church is so often summed up by the question: "Who are we?" with the answer "We're not those other people..."
Second -- the Bible. And this comes from my background in literary criticism: I wonder if fundamentalists have it right, in a sense. How can you take the Bible any way other than literally? My understanding (and here you'll probably need to correct me) is that the Bible itself states that it is its own authority (quick Google search, Jeremiah 1:9?, 1 Thess. 2:13, for example?) To me, the Bible says that you are not allowed to go outside the text for answers. The answers are here...
But as I've mentioned and as many many people have wrestled with over millenia, the Bible does not provide answers, just questions and logical leaps. So, if we accept that Christ was crucified, mustn't we also accept that people like me will be cast into a Lake of Fire, that it's OK to slaughter the children of your enemies and that women are subservient to men? The earth was made in six days? If the creation story didn't really happen like it was written, then what about the Passion? It seems that the Bible itself gives us the choice -- accept it wholesale, or not at all.
So my question is, if you don't give the Bible a literal, fundamentalist interpretation, doesn't that make you a moral relativist, and, therefore, by the Bible's own rules, not a Christian?
I think you're right about identifying the source of our differences. I have always thought of "church" as "The Church," a hierarchical institution. When I was younger and trying out a few other faiths, I was literally mystified by groups like the Quakers, who seem to be the opposite of the Catholics in terms of rigid structure and centers of authority. You raised a perspective I don't often consider, that the "church" is just the people assembled.
Of course, I readily admit my problems with the church and religion are very personal and run deeper than an intellectual argument.
You mentioned how I felt when the abuse scandals came to light. Part of me was relieved. I always thought of priests as arrogant, generally weird men who -- among the dozen or so I had come to know on a first-name basis from childhood through about age 16 -- seemed a little different and kind of frightening to me.
I know three priests personally involved with sexual inappropriateness with children (I heard them say things that, if a teacher had said it to a child here in 2010, a teacher would probably have been suspended or investigated). When I started typing that sentecne I typed "one priest," but before I finished typing two more popped into my head. Now I'm thinking of men of my father's generation who were educated by priests and subjected to severe physical abuse, against which they were powerless to defend themselves (if you strike a priest, only the bishop can forgive that sin, we were taught -- no I'm not kidding).
When the abuse scandal started to emerge and people started to realize just how many priests were pederasts and bullies, I felt humiliated about the respect and deference we were taught to show them, and angry about the arrogant condescension I heard in homilies for hundreds of Sundays of my childhood condemning such sins as not going to church regularly, eating meat on Friday during Lent, or coveting your neighbors' goods. Physical abuse and torture committed by the clergy apparently wasn't as grave as these sins.
The other hypocrisies of the church then became more obvious to me and more difficult to ignore. This coincided with the end of my teenage years, beginning college, and generally questioning everything the way you do at that age. My favorite was always -- Blessed are the Poor, says the pope, from the throne in his castle in his own private country filled with priceless masterworks of western art. I was chagrinned I hadn't really given it much thougth before.
I guess like many people my choice became clear -- try to change the church from within, ignore the many evils and injustices the church is responsible for or tolerates, or leave. The church never seemed to need me, I was always told that you belong to the church because it's your duty (basically to stay out of hell). Once I stopped believing, I had no more need for this.
Now --- after my screed about hypocrisy, here's an interesting thing. One of these days I hope to have children. And when I do, my father is going to want my child to be baptised in the Catholic church. I know this because my sister who feels similiar to the way I do, just went through this process with her daughter. Will I do it? I might. Because the church doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's been such a part of my life and family traditions that I might be faced with the choice of having a harmonious relationship with my family or standing up for my principles. I really like my family, so after all this I may yet just hold my nose...
I guess my questions and skepticism follow two branches of thought: One -- that churches, as insitutions, are groups that I have come to associate with people who are fearful, judgmental and bigoted, and they use their membership in a church to justify their sour feelings toward people who do not share their views. Catholics against Jews, Lutherans against Catholics, Black churches vs. gays, any fundamentalist group vs. intellectuals, Muslims against non-muslims. Membership in a church is so often summed up by the question: "Who are we?" with the answer "We're not those other people..."
Second -- the Bible. And this comes from my background in literary criticism: I wonder if fundamentalists have it right, in a sense. How can you take the Bible any way other than literally? My understanding (and here you'll probably need to correct me) is that the Bible itself states that it is its own authority (quick Google search, Jeremiah 1:9?, 1 Thess. 2:13, for example?) To me, the Bible says that you are not allowed to go outside the text for answers. The answers are here...
But as I've mentioned and as many many people have wrestled with over millenia, the Bible does not provide answers, just questions and logical leaps. So, if we accept that Christ was crucified, mustn't we also accept that people like me will be cast into a Lake of Fire, that it's OK to slaughter the children of your enemies and that women are subservient to men? The earth was made in six days? If the creation story didn't really happen like it was written, then what about the Passion? It seems that the Bible itself gives us the choice -- accept it wholesale, or not at all.
So my question is, if you don't give the Bible a literal, fundamentalist interpretation, doesn't that make you a moral relativist, and, therefore, by the Bible's own rules, not a Christian?
Monday, March 22, 2010
Another Response to a Skeptic
For those of you just joining in, this is part of a series of posts following a correspondance with a friend. The series starts with Thoughts of a Modern Day Skeptic. This is my most recent response.
This is fun! I think our difference comes out of our understanding of the nature of the church (the $25 word is ecclesiology). For centuries that Catholic church was structured just as you suggested, a top down hierarichal institution that would tell people what to say, think, and do. In Vatican II the bases of the Catholic church started to shift from an institution to a gathering of people. The church is first the people of God. Now I agree that such a philosophical change did not filter all the way up and the Catholic Church continued to rule and dictate in different ways.
As a Baptist, my understanding of the church is the gathered people of God. The church is in fully present at the local level only. We do not have a hierarichy. This may be why I have a kinder view of the church, becasue each one is a mix of blessings and curses. There are churches that do evil things - case in point the Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas - the anit-gay church (and everything else) that tells gays they are going to burn in hell and that God hates them. This is wrong and evil.
Do I think churches should be help to a higher standard - kinda. They should be working with completely different standards, i.e. those of a religious nature. Perhaps then I cannot compare churches to other institutions. Yet on the other hand, as I said above, churches are still human institutions and do fall (or sin in religious parlance). Think of the pastor of a church.... someone like me. Should I be held to a higher standard of ethical living than anyone else in the congregation that I am leading? Am I a better human being than anyone else?
Here is the crux of my position: the church is a gathering of people trying to understand and live into their relationship with God through Jesus Christ. The church is a gathering of people helping each other, praying for and with each other, pushing each other in beliefs, and walking together.
As to your criticism of Catholicism, I cannot relate completely. I cannot relate because I am not a Catholic, nor have I ever been one. I can only imagine that when an institution that was such a strong part of your formation is complicit in such a sin that the reaction must be like a moment of spiritual vomiting. (or perhaps literal vomiting)
You have been taught a certain view of the world by a very hierarichal institution, and that view has been shattered by that institution's actions. So I cannot condem your reaction (nor could I anyway). I guess I would ask you, in time, to consider that the "church" universal is larger than the Catholic church.
Again, this is good.
This is fun! I think our difference comes out of our understanding of the nature of the church (the $25 word is ecclesiology). For centuries that Catholic church was structured just as you suggested, a top down hierarichal institution that would tell people what to say, think, and do. In Vatican II the bases of the Catholic church started to shift from an institution to a gathering of people. The church is first the people of God. Now I agree that such a philosophical change did not filter all the way up and the Catholic Church continued to rule and dictate in different ways.
As a Baptist, my understanding of the church is the gathered people of God. The church is in fully present at the local level only. We do not have a hierarichy. This may be why I have a kinder view of the church, becasue each one is a mix of blessings and curses. There are churches that do evil things - case in point the Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas - the anit-gay church (and everything else) that tells gays they are going to burn in hell and that God hates them. This is wrong and evil.
Do I think churches should be help to a higher standard - kinda. They should be working with completely different standards, i.e. those of a religious nature. Perhaps then I cannot compare churches to other institutions. Yet on the other hand, as I said above, churches are still human institutions and do fall (or sin in religious parlance). Think of the pastor of a church.... someone like me. Should I be held to a higher standard of ethical living than anyone else in the congregation that I am leading? Am I a better human being than anyone else?
Here is the crux of my position: the church is a gathering of people trying to understand and live into their relationship with God through Jesus Christ. The church is a gathering of people helping each other, praying for and with each other, pushing each other in beliefs, and walking together.
As to your criticism of Catholicism, I cannot relate completely. I cannot relate because I am not a Catholic, nor have I ever been one. I can only imagine that when an institution that was such a strong part of your formation is complicit in such a sin that the reaction must be like a moment of spiritual vomiting. (or perhaps literal vomiting)
You have been taught a certain view of the world by a very hierarichal institution, and that view has been shattered by that institution's actions. So I cannot condem your reaction (nor could I anyway). I guess I would ask you, in time, to consider that the "church" universal is larger than the Catholic church.
Again, this is good.
More Thoughts of a Modern Day Skeptic
My friend responded to my response:
First of all, thank you. I normally would not force you to respond like that because you're busy with your own flock and family, but I guess it's been on my mind lately and I had to speak up. No one else I know is very engaged in philosophy these days.
And thanks for the reading suggestions. It's like I've been listening to the music of John Williams, and you have urged me to instead go find some Stravinsky.
Of course you can post my "essay." Thanks for thinking it worthy of posting.
I had written more in an earlier reply but I accidentally clicked off the page and it disappeared. Here's one thing I wanted to respond to...
I appreciate what you said about how a church is like any large organization -- there's going to be some horrible people, there's going to be some corruption. Both, I understand you're saying, should be condemned and fought against, but they can never be rooted out 100%.
I feel a church, though, should be held to a much higher standard. We're talking about an organization that governs how we live, speak, and think, and is the caretaker of many of our cultural traditions. It turns out though, that often churches are even worse than secular groups (unions for instance). I will keep harping on this because it's so repellant -- decades of covering up the rape of children. That's a little beyond "institutionally messed up." That's a criminal enterprise that, under what we normally think of as common sense and the law, should be dismantled, its assets sold, and its leaders jailed. But it goes on because it's such a part of our lives, has such a hold over us through, I would strongly argue, fear and superstition.
Anyway, that's outside the scope of your defense. I'm not asking you to stick up for the Catholics. But I do challenge your view that a church is like any other fallible, human organization. It's simply not. A church is an organization that we invite to govern our lives, our relationships, our thoughts...i would argue that while a church cannot be any better than your average trade union, but because of what a church demands of us, it should be far, far better, but is frequently worse.
First of all, thank you. I normally would not force you to respond like that because you're busy with your own flock and family, but I guess it's been on my mind lately and I had to speak up. No one else I know is very engaged in philosophy these days.
And thanks for the reading suggestions. It's like I've been listening to the music of John Williams, and you have urged me to instead go find some Stravinsky.
Of course you can post my "essay." Thanks for thinking it worthy of posting.
I had written more in an earlier reply but I accidentally clicked off the page and it disappeared. Here's one thing I wanted to respond to...
I appreciate what you said about how a church is like any large organization -- there's going to be some horrible people, there's going to be some corruption. Both, I understand you're saying, should be condemned and fought against, but they can never be rooted out 100%.
I feel a church, though, should be held to a much higher standard. We're talking about an organization that governs how we live, speak, and think, and is the caretaker of many of our cultural traditions. It turns out though, that often churches are even worse than secular groups (unions for instance). I will keep harping on this because it's so repellant -- decades of covering up the rape of children. That's a little beyond "institutionally messed up." That's a criminal enterprise that, under what we normally think of as common sense and the law, should be dismantled, its assets sold, and its leaders jailed. But it goes on because it's such a part of our lives, has such a hold over us through, I would strongly argue, fear and superstition.
Anyway, that's outside the scope of your defense. I'm not asking you to stick up for the Catholics. But I do challenge your view that a church is like any other fallible, human organization. It's simply not. A church is an organization that we invite to govern our lives, our relationships, our thoughts...i would argue that while a church cannot be any better than your average trade union, but because of what a church demands of us, it should be far, far better, but is frequently worse.
Response to the Skeptic
Here is my response to the Skeptic
Hmmm..... You have said a lot, and I'll try to answer in the best way that I can. I hope you forgive the spelling/grammer/syntaxt errors.
First, I would not read Hitchens or Dawson. They are both very smart, but idiots when it comes to athieism. If you want so really good arguments against the existance of God read Feuerbach, Marx, and Nietzsche. You could also read some Satre and Camus. These guys gave true and good agruments about society's misuse of the idea of God. I wonder if I should be sending you in this direction.
I agree that God has been used to justify many evil acts. God has also been used as a reason for many good acts. King and the Civil Rights Movement, Dorothy Day and the Workers Movement, Oscar Romero and his work for the poor, and on and on. Augustine described the church as a mixture of saints and sinners, the problem is many people in the church forget this. On the other hand many people outside of the church forget this as well (mostly because of the self-righteous attitude of many within the church).
Yes, many people in the church are jugemental and that is wrong. I think this is a symptom of humanity. Yes the Catholic church is institutionally messed up, but so are every other church and every other institution: case in point, Unions.
I continue to work with the church for the same reason we work with democracy. It is flawed, broken, but the best thing out there.
As to questions of faith, you are asking some great questions. When I was in my second year of seminary I asked many similar questions. I was in a serious place of doubt. That is when I did my little hike on the AT (and got lyme disease and almost died... thanks a lot, God!). I went on this hike looking to wrestle with many questions. I think the wrestling is very good.
In the end I came out not sure if I believed in the existence of God. I can't prove that God exists. I cannot prove that Jesus exists. But I came to the honest realization that I need God to exist. That is where I am now, I don't know with certianity that God exists, but I need God to exist. It is not something I am completely comfortable with, but it is honest.
As to the Bible, I read the Bible as a collection of stories, rules, songs, ect. that speak to an interaction and wrestling with God. They are told by people, interpreted by people, and biased by people. But they are about these people trying to understand their relationship with God and Christ. That is a vague way of looking at the text that allows for the contradictions.
I no longer believe in hell, the devil, and am still working on salvation.
In the end, I continue to preach because I have found a faith that I believe goes deeper than the crap that is often taught. It gives me a profound hope for my life. I continue to preach because I believe that the faith I have found, based on Jesus Christ, is something good, something that others should have as well. I continue to grow and learn and struggle, but in the end, I believe and my belief is why I preach.
That is kinda a bunch of immediate thoughts. I ran out of time, so if you want to push back and go a little deeper that would be fine.
Hmmm..... You have said a lot, and I'll try to answer in the best way that I can. I hope you forgive the spelling/grammer/syntaxt errors.
First, I would not read Hitchens or Dawson. They are both very smart, but idiots when it comes to athieism. If you want so really good arguments against the existance of God read Feuerbach, Marx, and Nietzsche. You could also read some Satre and Camus. These guys gave true and good agruments about society's misuse of the idea of God. I wonder if I should be sending you in this direction.
I agree that God has been used to justify many evil acts. God has also been used as a reason for many good acts. King and the Civil Rights Movement, Dorothy Day and the Workers Movement, Oscar Romero and his work for the poor, and on and on. Augustine described the church as a mixture of saints and sinners, the problem is many people in the church forget this. On the other hand many people outside of the church forget this as well (mostly because of the self-righteous attitude of many within the church).
Yes, many people in the church are jugemental and that is wrong. I think this is a symptom of humanity. Yes the Catholic church is institutionally messed up, but so are every other church and every other institution: case in point, Unions.
I continue to work with the church for the same reason we work with democracy. It is flawed, broken, but the best thing out there.
As to questions of faith, you are asking some great questions. When I was in my second year of seminary I asked many similar questions. I was in a serious place of doubt. That is when I did my little hike on the AT (and got lyme disease and almost died... thanks a lot, God!). I went on this hike looking to wrestle with many questions. I think the wrestling is very good.
In the end I came out not sure if I believed in the existence of God. I can't prove that God exists. I cannot prove that Jesus exists. But I came to the honest realization that I need God to exist. That is where I am now, I don't know with certianity that God exists, but I need God to exist. It is not something I am completely comfortable with, but it is honest.
As to the Bible, I read the Bible as a collection of stories, rules, songs, ect. that speak to an interaction and wrestling with God. They are told by people, interpreted by people, and biased by people. But they are about these people trying to understand their relationship with God and Christ. That is a vague way of looking at the text that allows for the contradictions.
I no longer believe in hell, the devil, and am still working on salvation.
In the end, I continue to preach because I have found a faith that I believe goes deeper than the crap that is often taught. It gives me a profound hope for my life. I continue to preach because I believe that the faith I have found, based on Jesus Christ, is something good, something that others should have as well. I continue to grow and learn and struggle, but in the end, I believe and my belief is why I preach.
That is kinda a bunch of immediate thoughts. I ran out of time, so if you want to push back and go a little deeper that would be fine.
Thoughts of a Modern Day Skeptic
Below is a message I received from a good friend of mine. He gave me permission to post his message on this blog. The next couple of posts will continue the correspondence. I think he is asking a lot of very good and important questions.
You know, I have been thinking a lot lately about faith. I used to have tons of it in the tradtional, doctrinaire, religious sense. I believed in God, Jesus, the devil, heaven, hell, the saints, pretty much I was a rank-and-file Catholic and accepted it.
Every ounce of that is gone now. I'm not even convinced Jesus, as we commonly understand him, was even a real person. I still feel nervous typing phrases like that, because the dangers of blasphemy were drilled into my head so completely that there's an irrational part of me that still fears being smoted.
But I think it's all junk. I think it's stories and metaphor and myth, told to ignorant people in part to control them, in part to soothe the horrors of their own nasty, brutish, and short lives, and part to soothe the anxious human brain that really can't comprehend infinity. I have a hard time understanding people who believe the Bible literally (i'm not suggesting that you do). It is so full of contradictions that it cannot be taken as one literal whole.
I find myself agreeing with pop-athiests like Hitchens and Dawson. That God is not great. That we use "Him" to justify our worst impulses (The Crusades, The Inquisition, any number of Intafada, polygymy, most everything conceived by the Puritans, female circumcision, ethnic cleansing, jihad, etc.) I believe that there's something wrong with giving deference and power to people and institutions who will willingly profess that they take things "on faith," that is, without proof and against all available evidence. That we consider our moral leaders to be, literally, those who talk to and interpret the wills of invisible beings who perform magic. It no longer makes any sense to me.
The Catholic sex abuse scandal might be considered the inciting event for my lack of faith. Gail Collins, in a recent NY Times column headlined "Saints Preserve Us!" makes a good point. Pope Benedict, when he was a cardinal, sent a note to the clergy that threatened excommunication to anyone who divulged information about internal abuse investigations to the police. Note, Collins points out, he was not threatening excommunication for pedophiles, but to those who called the police. This, Collins, says, from a pope who has long warned us on the dangers of moral relativism.
If someone asks me why I left the church, I find the answer "institutionalized child rape" is one I'm pretty comfortable with. Actually, it makes me want to say, "and why haven't you left?"
So this is but one example of why the Catholic Church has zero moral authority .
And while, someone may argue, that's a different issue than the theology, I don't see it. I trusted the church because I believed its hierarchy was directly descended from Jesus ("Upon this rock..." and all that). Even if you can draw a straight line from Benedict back to Saint Peter, it no longer means to me what I thought that meant. I know there have been some popes -- especially through the Middle Ages, that made Benedict look like an actual saint. But since the days of Innocent IV were a long time ago, I guess I overlooked it.
So I'm going long here, I'm going to cut it short. Once I realized that the Catholic Church had zero credibility, I wondered, "who has any?" Everyone is telling the same story. Every church has an enemies list. Every church creates God in their own image and says that every other faith is the faith of infidels. Every church is full of hateful, ignorant, people and when I meet them I think, "If there is a Heaven, and I get to go there, do I have sit next to YOU?"
And at the root of all this is the Bible. Which, in my non-expert understanding of it, is a document written over the course of centuries by hundreds (scores?) of authors with their own agendas and historical contexts. And then there's the old arguments: what about all the contradictions, the violence, rape, and slavery, the stunningly different accounts of the Passion in the Gospels? Jesus seemed to indicate in several quotes that he thought the End Times would be within his own generation, and yet they were not. Does that make Jesus fallible? Or if not, a liar? There are pretty heavy implications either way.
And now, Jonathan, after all the above, which is rougher than a rough draft of an essay, just some thoughts that have been boiling in my head recently, is the point of my note to you:
You are a smart guy. You're an intellectual in the very best sense of the word. I respect your thoughtfulness and seriousness on these matters. I'm not asking you to convice me, I'm asking you for your perspective. You know all this, and still you are comfortable enough with it to preach it. Why?
You know, I have been thinking a lot lately about faith. I used to have tons of it in the tradtional, doctrinaire, religious sense. I believed in God, Jesus, the devil, heaven, hell, the saints, pretty much I was a rank-and-file Catholic and accepted it.
Every ounce of that is gone now. I'm not even convinced Jesus, as we commonly understand him, was even a real person. I still feel nervous typing phrases like that, because the dangers of blasphemy were drilled into my head so completely that there's an irrational part of me that still fears being smoted.
But I think it's all junk. I think it's stories and metaphor and myth, told to ignorant people in part to control them, in part to soothe the horrors of their own nasty, brutish, and short lives, and part to soothe the anxious human brain that really can't comprehend infinity. I have a hard time understanding people who believe the Bible literally (i'm not suggesting that you do). It is so full of contradictions that it cannot be taken as one literal whole.
I find myself agreeing with pop-athiests like Hitchens and Dawson. That God is not great. That we use "Him" to justify our worst impulses (The Crusades, The Inquisition, any number of Intafada, polygymy, most everything conceived by the Puritans, female circumcision, ethnic cleansing, jihad, etc.) I believe that there's something wrong with giving deference and power to people and institutions who will willingly profess that they take things "on faith," that is, without proof and against all available evidence. That we consider our moral leaders to be, literally, those who talk to and interpret the wills of invisible beings who perform magic. It no longer makes any sense to me.
The Catholic sex abuse scandal might be considered the inciting event for my lack of faith. Gail Collins, in a recent NY Times column headlined "Saints Preserve Us!" makes a good point. Pope Benedict, when he was a cardinal, sent a note to the clergy that threatened excommunication to anyone who divulged information about internal abuse investigations to the police. Note, Collins points out, he was not threatening excommunication for pedophiles, but to those who called the police. This, Collins, says, from a pope who has long warned us on the dangers of moral relativism.
If someone asks me why I left the church, I find the answer "institutionalized child rape" is one I'm pretty comfortable with. Actually, it makes me want to say, "and why haven't you left?"
So this is but one example of why the Catholic Church has zero moral authority .
And while, someone may argue, that's a different issue than the theology, I don't see it. I trusted the church because I believed its hierarchy was directly descended from Jesus ("Upon this rock..." and all that). Even if you can draw a straight line from Benedict back to Saint Peter, it no longer means to me what I thought that meant. I know there have been some popes -- especially through the Middle Ages, that made Benedict look like an actual saint. But since the days of Innocent IV were a long time ago, I guess I overlooked it.
So I'm going long here, I'm going to cut it short. Once I realized that the Catholic Church had zero credibility, I wondered, "who has any?" Everyone is telling the same story. Every church has an enemies list. Every church creates God in their own image and says that every other faith is the faith of infidels. Every church is full of hateful, ignorant, people and when I meet them I think, "If there is a Heaven, and I get to go there, do I have sit next to YOU?"
And at the root of all this is the Bible. Which, in my non-expert understanding of it, is a document written over the course of centuries by hundreds (scores?) of authors with their own agendas and historical contexts. And then there's the old arguments: what about all the contradictions, the violence, rape, and slavery, the stunningly different accounts of the Passion in the Gospels? Jesus seemed to indicate in several quotes that he thought the End Times would be within his own generation, and yet they were not. Does that make Jesus fallible? Or if not, a liar? There are pretty heavy implications either way.
And now, Jonathan, after all the above, which is rougher than a rough draft of an essay, just some thoughts that have been boiling in my head recently, is the point of my note to you:
You are a smart guy. You're an intellectual in the very best sense of the word. I respect your thoughtfulness and seriousness on these matters. I'm not asking you to convice me, I'm asking you for your perspective. You know all this, and still you are comfortable enough with it to preach it. Why?
Saturday, March 20, 2010
Of Beautiful Days, Certainity, and Forced Description
It is a beautiful day today. I went to the playground with children 1and 4. Child 1 threw the disc (Frisbee for all of you uneducated folks) around. It makes me proud to see him throwing and catching. Beautiful day, it probably wont last.
I have finally done my taxes. The good news is I don’t owe anything. The bad news is the return is very, very small. Thanks Uncle Sam.
I have been continuing to work on my expletive dissertation which is taxing at times. Trying to take data and then explain it in a technical way can be difficult. I am taking the speech-acts of a community and deriving from them a conviction statement. I often wonder about such an effort - forcing a term or theory on something that people just do. Would it be better to just let people live, have pastors, etc? Probably not. The more we understand about ourselves the more we can be deliberate in naming and claiming who we are, or who we want to be. I have meet a number of Baptist pastors who have no idea what it means to be ordained, and their ministry suffers. I have encountered churches that have no idea what to expect from a pastor – they just hope they don’t get a tyrant. It is my hope that my work will help pastors and churches arrive at a better understanding of what it means to be and to have a pastor. I probably shouldn’t make it so obtuse.
I have finally done my taxes. The good news is I don’t owe anything. The bad news is the return is very, very small. Thanks Uncle Sam.
I have been continuing to work on my expletive dissertation which is taxing at times. Trying to take data and then explain it in a technical way can be difficult. I am taking the speech-acts of a community and deriving from them a conviction statement. I often wonder about such an effort - forcing a term or theory on something that people just do. Would it be better to just let people live, have pastors, etc? Probably not. The more we understand about ourselves the more we can be deliberate in naming and claiming who we are, or who we want to be. I have meet a number of Baptist pastors who have no idea what it means to be ordained, and their ministry suffers. I have encountered churches that have no idea what to expect from a pastor – they just hope they don’t get a tyrant. It is my hope that my work will help pastors and churches arrive at a better understanding of what it means to be and to have a pastor. I probably shouldn’t make it so obtuse.
Wednesday, March 17, 2010
La Romana - Afterthought or What Now?
Well I have been back for a couple of days now. I think I have caught up on most of my sleep – I awoke this morning at 5:00am which is a good sign. I have been running, trying to catch up with studies, work, and family, and it wasn’t until now that I have asked myself – what now?
What do I do now that I have had this amazing experience? The easiest and obvious answer is to return to my work and look forward to the next trip in two years (if we go again). We would tweak things, move things around, but that would be the obvious action.
Yet the poor will continue to struggle, the country will continue to struggle, and I don’t think I need to say anything about Haiti. Shouldn’t we continue to be actively involved in the mission we are engaged in?
On the other hand, how much can we do? We can get more and more involved, give more and more of our resources and energy, and still not make much of a difference. And in the meantime, there are needs at our doorstep that would not be met.
Yesterday I was with the Rhode Island Council of Churches Faith and Order commission discussing the church’s involvement with the poor. I suggested an adaptation of Avery Dulles’ Models of the Church to recognize that different churches have different chrisms when it comes to engagement. Dulles suggests the models of Institution, Mystical Body, Sacrament, Herald, and Servant. I’m not going to get into them more – maybe in another post. The take-away is that we all have different gifts as individuals and as churches. Some of us will be institutionally involved, some will speak truth to power, and some will serve in any way possible. With this in mind, I ask myself what is the chrisms of First Baptist, EG when it comes to reaching out to those in need? If we name that and embrace it, then we will likely have something to focus on.
Sunday, March 14, 2010
Saturday, March 13, 2010
La Romana Day 7 - The Final Day
Yesterday was supposed to be more of the same. We on the medical team have a good routine – we get on the bus, the bus travels for an hour or so, we get off the bus, we do our work and then we get back on the bus and go home. We don’t know were we are going, but we all trust that the magic bus will get us there.
Yesterday was different. We got on the bus, and about fifteen minutes we got off the bus. We were not in a batay, but in a barrio. Here is the difference: a batay is surrounded by sugar cane and is very rural. It is a small village. A barrio is in a city, is not quite a village, but is more a neighborhood. We had to set up in a small, dimly lit house and work there.
Once the work started it was the same as every other day. People are sick, people need medicine, and we were there to help. At the end of the day the leader of an community organization (a community organizer, if you will), asked me via interpreter what the experience was like serving the poor in a Latin American country. I gave two answers.
1) I wish we could do more. This church has been coming here for ten years and doing more or less the same thing. I don’t know if conditions have improved, but my assumption is that they did not. It feels like we are just putting a band-aid on a gaping wound. The leader of the organizer went on for a while about the lack of interest and concern that the government showed. The system is broken, and I wonder if we are enabling its brokenness.
2) The poor are the poor here, in Mexico, in Providence, in Boston, in Europe, and elsewhere. Suffering is suffering, and we (Christians) are called to reach out to those who are suffering. I remember one funeral I did last year where the deceased was remembered with this line: see a need, fill a need.
In the end, I am glad I got to go on this trip. I don’t think I would say it was life changing, but I would say that it is life enriching and fulfilling. On this trip I was reminded of the suffering of the cross and the glory of the resurrection in a real and tangible way. God is good, all the time, we just need to show people that goodness.
Oh, I also had the opportunity to hold a 2 month old girl for a while. As a father of four boys, that was a wonderful experience. Pics of that to follow.
Friday, March 12, 2010
Haiti Update.3, (final update?)
This is probably the final post from Haiti - we received a text from them circa 4:30pm that they crossed the Dominican/Haiti boarder.
Good morning
Hot hot hot
Will I ever see my ankles again?
We are driving thru another part if the city to the next stop. Such
poverty
The air is so dusty. Most of us wear masks in the open air travel
accommodations a.k.a. back of the truck
The water doesn't seem so cold and I still love soap
Another clinic in another church. Each clinic was different today's
was an older group not as many under the age of 12. Quieter, subdued ,
sad eyes, eyes that have seen too much for too long
I think by best guesstimate we will have seen 1000 people
Friday
Last night I fell asleep by 8:30 Helping people is exhausting work!
We are on the bus back to la Romana DR. This morning we held a clinic
about 15 mins from the church. The neighborhood looked much more
affluent than where we had been. The people were a mixed group. So
many people. We saw 167 pts in about 3 hrs. Many were still at the
gate and we had to turn them away. A one month old Tony saw yesterday
came back today because they were turned away at the hospital. Tony
treated the baby again and had someone from the group with a driver
attempt to bring today. The Baby got in today even so Tony doesn't
expect the baby to live......
All creatures great and small
All along the roads and around the buildings and tents are cows goats
hens chicks n roosters a few donkeys and dogs. John - I think of you
with the dogs. They don't look mean or act mean - they pretty much all
look like the same mutt family but they are looking for food some go
on top of the collapsed buildings. I wonder if they know if someone is
under the debris. No cats or birds- wonder why?
I was doing so well getting up and down the trucks until today...
I lost my footing and went down about 3 ft. Ouch. All parts are still
working just sore. Thank goodness no cameras
What an experience thus week has been.
Good morning
Hot hot hot
Will I ever see my ankles again?
We are driving thru another part if the city to the next stop. Such
poverty
The air is so dusty. Most of us wear masks in the open air travel
accommodations a.k.a. back of the truck
The water doesn't seem so cold and I still love soap
Another clinic in another church. Each clinic was different today's
was an older group not as many under the age of 12. Quieter, subdued ,
sad eyes, eyes that have seen too much for too long
I think by best guesstimate we will have seen 1000 people
Friday
Last night I fell asleep by 8:30 Helping people is exhausting work!
We are on the bus back to la Romana DR. This morning we held a clinic
about 15 mins from the church. The neighborhood looked much more
affluent than where we had been. The people were a mixed group. So
many people. We saw 167 pts in about 3 hrs. Many were still at the
gate and we had to turn them away. A one month old Tony saw yesterday
came back today because they were turned away at the hospital. Tony
treated the baby again and had someone from the group with a driver
attempt to bring today. The Baby got in today even so Tony doesn't
expect the baby to live......
All creatures great and small
All along the roads and around the buildings and tents are cows goats
hens chicks n roosters a few donkeys and dogs. John - I think of you
with the dogs. They don't look mean or act mean - they pretty much all
look like the same mutt family but they are looking for food some go
on top of the collapsed buildings. I wonder if they know if someone is
under the debris. No cats or birds- wonder why?
I was doing so well getting up and down the trucks until today...
I lost my footing and went down about 3 ft. Ouch. All parts are still
working just sore. Thank goodness no cameras
What an experience thus week has been.
Picture From Haiti
I just got this picture of Don Anderson in Haiti... not sure what is scarier, the scene behind him, or the idea of Don as a medical doctor.
La Romana Day 6 - Don't Get to Close...Why So Distant?
Once again, more of the same. We headed out to another batay to help people. This one was one of the nicer ones, with decent wood houses and electricity in some of the homes. There were a lot of children with a lot of needs. It was, overall, a good day, but some of the children were getting pushy. Not only were they asking for things like shirts and candy, but they started to directly ask me for my pens and my hat. This was crossing the boundaries for me. This was asking me for something that was mine, and that I needed. I have to admit at that time I did not consider the words of Christ calling us to give our shirt as well as our cloak when we are asked (and there are more nuanced ways to read that passage). I was thinking that the children should not even ask.
After work we went to an orphanage, which was a great institution doing great work, and then headed home. This evening we went out to dinner as a group and some even danced for a bit. It was a lot of fun.
I was thinking today about interaction. We are missionaries here on behalf of Christ. If this is the case, then shouldn’t we act in such a way? I’m not suggesting that we all be prim and proper all the time, but shouldn’t we worry about how we will be perceived?
I think this question really comes out of my experience. I do not normally spend this much time with church folk, and I enjoy it when I have the opportunity to relax and be myself, completely and uncensored. Yet, I am still their pastor, I am here as much for them as I am for others. Think of this with the people we have been serving. We want to have fun with them which is good. We want to truly be with them, and yet at the same time we want to serve them and show them Christ. How do we share ourselves and at the same time serve and show Christ? How do we hold to our authenticity and at the same time avoid closing any doors to the movement of the spirit? We (Christians) have a long history of going to one extreme and I’d rather not go to the other. Something to think about.
Thursday, March 11, 2010
La Romana Day 5 - A Special Treat
Yesterday I had the unique opportunity to go to Santo Domingo with Raquel Alvarez. Raquel now lives in Providence, RI, but is from the DR. The trip was full of a lot of neat adventures including getting off a bus on the highway, crossing the highway, and riding around Santo Domingo on the back of a motorcycle. It was a great trip and a great way to experience the DR; with a local.
One of the most powerful experiences of the day was when we went to visit one of the hospitals in Santo Domingo. It was not a pretty sight. I want to be clear, the doctors there are very good, the care is as good as it can be, yet I was still shocked. No one had an individual room; everyone was in larger wards (about 8 to 10 in a ward). There was not a lot of machines that went “beep,” or lights, or machines that went, “ping,” only the most basic things that the patients needed. Maybe an IV bag, but most just had to lie on their beds and wait. Some family was there to help.
It did not take long for me to want to do something, and all I can do is pray. I asked Raquel if she could pass the offer on for me, and translate for me. I prayed for one man, I held his hands and I prayed for him and for his family. Someone else asked for prayer, so I held his hand and prayed for him. I went to the next room and Raquel asked who wanted prayer. They all wanted prayer. So I prayed for all of them, standing in the middle of the room, and then I went around to each person and laid hands on them and prayed for them one at a time. We went to another room and did the same thing. Eventually we made it to the children’s ward. Again, everyone wanted prayers, so I started to pray. Then came in the Nun.
The Nun told us to stop, told us to be quiet and to not pray. She did not want us to pray. We finished our prayer and then left with Raquel shouting at the Nun.
What can I say? People needed some sense of hope and peace. People needed to know that God was with them, and for a Pastor to take their hands was a powerful and meaningful thing. It was powerful. I saw tears again and again. It was amazing, I felt the presence of Jesus Christ. Yet then came the Nun. Can we really be so petty as to let doctrinal differences keep us from offering people the love of Jesus Christ? Can we be so small as to let our churches get in the way of ministry?
I wanted to yell at her, “woman, get thee to a nunnery,” but then I thought, “to late.”
One of the most powerful experiences of the day was when we went to visit one of the hospitals in Santo Domingo. It was not a pretty sight. I want to be clear, the doctors there are very good, the care is as good as it can be, yet I was still shocked. No one had an individual room; everyone was in larger wards (about 8 to 10 in a ward). There was not a lot of machines that went “beep,” or lights, or machines that went, “ping,” only the most basic things that the patients needed. Maybe an IV bag, but most just had to lie on their beds and wait. Some family was there to help.
It did not take long for me to want to do something, and all I can do is pray. I asked Raquel if she could pass the offer on for me, and translate for me. I prayed for one man, I held his hands and I prayed for him and for his family. Someone else asked for prayer, so I held his hand and prayed for him. I went to the next room and Raquel asked who wanted prayer. They all wanted prayer. So I prayed for all of them, standing in the middle of the room, and then I went around to each person and laid hands on them and prayed for them one at a time. We went to another room and did the same thing. Eventually we made it to the children’s ward. Again, everyone wanted prayers, so I started to pray. Then came in the Nun.
The Nun told us to stop, told us to be quiet and to not pray. She did not want us to pray. We finished our prayer and then left with Raquel shouting at the Nun.
What can I say? People needed some sense of hope and peace. People needed to know that God was with them, and for a Pastor to take their hands was a powerful and meaningful thing. It was powerful. I saw tears again and again. It was amazing, I felt the presence of Jesus Christ. Yet then came the Nun. Can we really be so petty as to let doctrinal differences keep us from offering people the love of Jesus Christ? Can we be so small as to let our churches get in the way of ministry?
I wanted to yell at her, “woman, get thee to a nunnery,” but then I thought, “to late.”
Haiti Update.2
Another message from a memeber of the Haiti team
What day is it? I asked myself that question several times today. Is
it Tuesday, Wednesday? Yesterday was surreal we left La Romana the
night before, traveled thru the night, got to Haiti which looked like
another world from the DR, dropped our stuff, ate something while we
were oriented, packed a truck and left for a "settlement." We worked
till dark, probably would have worked longer but there was no
electricity, left and you know the rest of that story.....
Today was another exhausting day. Driving in the back of a pickup
truck thru the city, the ride on the way to the church clinic and back
looked surreal. A scene out of a movie, a horror movie? A sci fi?
Dantes Peak? Or maybe that really weird book I read The Road. Did
the end of the world start in Haiti ? But there are still so many
people smiling, waving, sad, and fearful living in some of the worst
conditions. I am still amazed how clean and dressed they come to be
seen. We passed a tent city this morning, tents right next to each
other, hundreds of tents, but people were washing clothes in tubs. One
woman had a makeshift ironing board and a old fashioned looking iron
heated by a charcoal fire, and she was ironing!! What pride in
themselves, what strength in such a disaster!
To be assessing and providing care is amazing to me. Never did I think
I would have such an opportunity to help people. When I think back to
the days at the Brookdale Clinic and so many home visits with village,
I know now why I was placed there. Who still doesn't believe God works
in mysterious ways?? Also, Thank goodness He sends his angels! My
personal angels are the other providers- Mark, Tony, Zach, Tom They
are wonderful and so supportive. Everyone in the group is great.
Pretty much we don't know each other, yet collectively we each bring
ourselves and our talents and gifts oh and our patience and we work as
a group doing phenomenal things.
Dinner tonight was wonderful. Chicken, plantains, carrots. It was
tasty. Its amazing what Our Dominican/Haitian cooks can do with
limited facilities
You know what I realized is underappreciated and underrated - soap
I have come to love soap. Soap is wonderful especially mixed with water
Soap soap soap on your face , body , feet. I love soap
What day is it? I asked myself that question several times today. Is
it Tuesday, Wednesday? Yesterday was surreal we left La Romana the
night before, traveled thru the night, got to Haiti which looked like
another world from the DR, dropped our stuff, ate something while we
were oriented, packed a truck and left for a "settlement." We worked
till dark, probably would have worked longer but there was no
electricity, left and you know the rest of that story.....
Today was another exhausting day. Driving in the back of a pickup
truck thru the city, the ride on the way to the church clinic and back
looked surreal. A scene out of a movie, a horror movie? A sci fi?
Dantes Peak? Or maybe that really weird book I read The Road. Did
the end of the world start in Haiti ? But there are still so many
people smiling, waving, sad, and fearful living in some of the worst
conditions. I am still amazed how clean and dressed they come to be
seen. We passed a tent city this morning, tents right next to each
other, hundreds of tents, but people were washing clothes in tubs. One
woman had a makeshift ironing board and a old fashioned looking iron
heated by a charcoal fire, and she was ironing!! What pride in
themselves, what strength in such a disaster!
To be assessing and providing care is amazing to me. Never did I think
I would have such an opportunity to help people. When I think back to
the days at the Brookdale Clinic and so many home visits with village,
I know now why I was placed there. Who still doesn't believe God works
in mysterious ways?? Also, Thank goodness He sends his angels! My
personal angels are the other providers- Mark, Tony, Zach, Tom They
are wonderful and so supportive. Everyone in the group is great.
Pretty much we don't know each other, yet collectively we each bring
ourselves and our talents and gifts oh and our patience and we work as
a group doing phenomenal things.
Dinner tonight was wonderful. Chicken, plantains, carrots. It was
tasty. Its amazing what Our Dominican/Haitian cooks can do with
limited facilities
You know what I realized is underappreciated and underrated - soap
I have come to love soap. Soap is wonderful especially mixed with water
Soap soap soap on your face , body , feet. I love soap
La Romana - Haiti Update!
I received this e-mail from one of our team in Haiti yesterday (3/10) from her i-phone. It is very powerful. I’ll post on my experiences yesterday soonish.
Haiti end of day one
I am lying in my lower bunk - hot as biscuits as Christine would say.
Our room has no lights and a small ceiling fan slowly moves the warmth
around. My roomies were here last week- Linda is a NP from North
Carolina and Karen is a psych clinical specialist from I think MA-
they tell/ warn me be careful there are mice that come out at night.
Hence I took a Tylenol PM so I don't have to think about the mice. The
mattress is about Quarter inch thick - gosh I want to complain , it is
so easy to whine and be scared of the mice, bugs, whatever may be
growing and procreating in the mattress. Then I think of the hundred
of people we saw today living under sheets in dirt with horrible
plumbing , no electricity. I feel guilty to complain, but isn't it
"normal" for us to complain when we are the least bit inconvenienced?
Everyone that came to the clinic was dressed in their Sunday best as
were the children with them, and they waited in the hot dust for hours
staying clean. I could count on one hand the people who didn't have a
lost empty fearful look in their eyes. They were ready to move at any loud
noise.
The interpreter who worked with me , Val, was in his last year
at the university expecting to graduate in June with a linguistic
(spelling?) degree. He is already a teacher. He had one foot out the
door of the university when the building collapsed behind him he said
no one behind him made it out. His home was destroyed. He is living
with his wife and 4 year old on the streets under a tarp the school and
university were destroyed, no idea when or if they will be rebuilt or
open somewhere else and yet he is helping and coping and still has faith
So tonight when I'm thinking of the heat, mice, cold water lack of
lighting, very thin mattress and all the other amenities I am missing
I will put myself in the their shoes and try to remember There but for
the grace of God......
Would I/we be as strong , as resistant? I have to honest with
myself..... I'm missing some of those amenities ........
Good morning day two
I made it thru the night. The mice didn't eat me and I didn't see or
hear them. The mattress is still thin but I slept till 5:30
Is it faith, surviving or both?
We are on the back of a pick up truck. A large " dollar van," one of
yesterdays trucks had broken down on the way back from the clinic.
Ron was part of that group. They waited until we got back to the
church and then our truck went back to get them. I hear it was quite
the adventure hanging out on a Haiti stoop.
We have a longer trip this am
Just drove thru downtown Port a Prince. I'm speechless The
destruction from nature .... so many people must still be lying under
the rubble. Dust to dust
The UN tanks with troops in helmets and machine guns ..,, at least we
haven't heard the guns go off.
The buildings hanging on by a thread. Ready to tumble and implode. No
wonder the people are afraid to go into the buildings.
Well go to go. Bus is trying to back around a corner and keeps " tapping" a building. Probably best to pay attention
Love n peace
Loretta
Haiti end of day one
I am lying in my lower bunk - hot as biscuits as Christine would say.
Our room has no lights and a small ceiling fan slowly moves the warmth
around. My roomies were here last week- Linda is a NP from North
Carolina and Karen is a psych clinical specialist from I think MA-
they tell/ warn me be careful there are mice that come out at night.
Hence I took a Tylenol PM so I don't have to think about the mice. The
mattress is about Quarter inch thick - gosh I want to complain , it is
so easy to whine and be scared of the mice, bugs, whatever may be
growing and procreating in the mattress. Then I think of the hundred
of people we saw today living under sheets in dirt with horrible
plumbing , no electricity. I feel guilty to complain, but isn't it
"normal" for us to complain when we are the least bit inconvenienced?
Everyone that came to the clinic was dressed in their Sunday best as
were the children with them, and they waited in the hot dust for hours
staying clean. I could count on one hand the people who didn't have a
lost empty fearful look in their eyes. They were ready to move at any loud
noise.
The interpreter who worked with me , Val, was in his last year
at the university expecting to graduate in June with a linguistic
(spelling?) degree. He is already a teacher. He had one foot out the
door of the university when the building collapsed behind him he said
no one behind him made it out. His home was destroyed. He is living
with his wife and 4 year old on the streets under a tarp the school and
university were destroyed, no idea when or if they will be rebuilt or
open somewhere else and yet he is helping and coping and still has faith
So tonight when I'm thinking of the heat, mice, cold water lack of
lighting, very thin mattress and all the other amenities I am missing
I will put myself in the their shoes and try to remember There but for
the grace of God......
Would I/we be as strong , as resistant? I have to honest with
myself..... I'm missing some of those amenities ........
Good morning day two
I made it thru the night. The mice didn't eat me and I didn't see or
hear them. The mattress is still thin but I slept till 5:30
Is it faith, surviving or both?
We are on the back of a pick up truck. A large " dollar van," one of
yesterdays trucks had broken down on the way back from the clinic.
Ron was part of that group. They waited until we got back to the
church and then our truck went back to get them. I hear it was quite
the adventure hanging out on a Haiti stoop.
We have a longer trip this am
Just drove thru downtown Port a Prince. I'm speechless The
destruction from nature .... so many people must still be lying under
the rubble. Dust to dust
The UN tanks with troops in helmets and machine guns ..,, at least we
haven't heard the guns go off.
The buildings hanging on by a thread. Ready to tumble and implode. No
wonder the people are afraid to go into the buildings.
Well go to go. Bus is trying to back around a corner and keeps " tapping" a building. Probably best to pay attention
Love n peace
Loretta
Wednesday, March 10, 2010
Day 4 post-thought
Chrisms – we all have different gifts and calling – see Ephesians 4:12. Thus some of us are called to focus on construction, some are called to focus on medical, some are called to be relational. We need to be aware of each others gifts and callings and honor them.
Tuesday, March 09, 2010
La Romana Day 4 - Why are we here?
This was our second day of work – the construction team worked on rebuilding a playground, painting, and hulling cement to the roof. I joined the medical team to another batay to administer medicines (once again I took a lot of blood pressures).
It seemed like a good day overall. Everyone was in good spirits at the end of the day which is a good indicator. It feels like everyone is really starting to find a groove to their work and place in this ministry.
Today I have been thinking about the nature of ministry. We came here with a specific purpose – to help with the construction at the hospital, and to help with the medical needs at the batays. Yet we also brought supplies for the San Pedro school (which some of the youth are going to drop off tomorrow), and we have sent people to Haiti to work there. So our ministry has grown and changed a bit. Today we had some people work with the medical team who normally work with the construction team. While they may have come expecting to move cement, today they had to interact with children, parents, and other people in the Dominican Republic. So why are we here? What is our ministry?
Our ministry cannot simply be to build a hospital, because if that were the case it would be better to give the money we spent on this trip directly to the people in charge to continue work on the hospital. Our ministry cannot simply be to help the sick in the batays, because if that were the case we should send more doctors and such, and spend more time and energy training people in the DR to help. Our ministry is not to make the DR a better place, or even to make LR a better place. That is condescending. I think our real ministry is to form true and real relationships with the people here. We work with the Dominicans as we together build the hospital. We work with Dominicans as we reach out to the batys. We are connected with a Dominican school and their children. We are connected with those who are suffering in Haiti. The relationships are important.
If this is important, then we are not here to make the lives of others better, or to make our life better. If this is the case, then we are here to better the lives of others as we better our own lives; we are here to lift up others and be lifted up. That is good ministry.
Monday, March 08, 2010
La Romana Day 3 - It's Hopeless?
Today was our first real work day. About half of the group went to work “construction,” and the other half went to do medical. I went with the medical team so that is what I can speak to.
We went to what is called a batay, which is basically an outpost in a village in the middle of a sugar cane field. This is rural DR. We spent the day seeing people, diagnosing people, and handing out medication. I spent the day taking people’s blood pressure and sending them to the doctors. I saw a lot of people, and that was good. More on that experience later.
When we returned, the rest of the team eventually returned and we had dinner. Later I had ice-cream with the youth (a regular occurrence) and then we prayed for those going to Haiti. There was something powerful about the prayer. We gathered around all of those who decided to go, laid hands on them and sang, “Here I Am Lord” which is a great song. Then I prayed. It was a very emotional moment, and I think it was emotional for a number of reasons. One, most of those who are going to Haiti decided to go at the last minute, so many are still adjusting to the change. Yet more than that, I think we are all embracing the call to be here. It is no small thing to make such a journey, and at the same time I think we all realize how little we can do. The problems are so large, that the sand we move and the concrete we pour can only do so much. The bandages we place and the medicines we give can only do so much. And yet we face the audacity of the hopelessness and we continue to work. So to embrace our call is powerful and emotional.
Here is where I saw this in my day. We spend all day handing out medicines and all the time people were calling through the windows to us, asking for clothing, supplies, or anything else. It came to a point where we have to ignore them. I had to pretend I didn’t hear the children calling to me because I knew they wanted more than I could give. The problem was great and I had to ration out the solution. This is not easy.
It would be easy to walk away, believing that hope is lost. But we didn’t. It would be easy to turn our backs on the people and try to focus our resources on something that would matter. But we didn’t. Instead we served whoever we could with whatever we had and hoped it would make a difference. This is the calling of God, to serve and trust that God is working through our actions.
But by the grace of God do I go. But by the grace of God can I serve.
La Romana Day 2 - Church, Church, and more Church
Today was one more day of getting adjusted. We went to church (more on that below), we walked around the markets, and we got ready for tomorrow. It rained most of the day which was to bad because we were hoping to go to the beach. Well, that gives us something to complain about (I went to the DR, I worked hard, and I only got one day to work on my tan!).
As it turns out, the team going to Haiti needs more medical personal, so a number of our medical team as well as others are going to go to Haiti tomorrow. Keep them in your prayers. Now, onto church:
I have heard it again and again – we Americans don’t know how to do church. I have been told again and again that when we are in the Hispanic culture then we see a real worship with sincerity and authenticity. Well, I went to church for three hours this morning and an hour and a half this evening (that service is still happening). I guess I have seen “real” worship by now.
Let me say, the worship was powerful at moments. The singing was very emotional, it was full of a impromptu feel that added a certain feeling of spontaneity and an awareness of the Holy Spirit. The warm hospitality and welcome on the part of the pastors, deacons and other people there was wonderful. The pastor’s sermon was full of power and energy at a very high volume. And it was two hours long. I am in no position to say that the worship was insincere or weak, mostly because I didn’t understand a word they were saying. They could have been railing against fried chicken in favor of baked chicken for all I know. Regardless, it was passionate.
Here is where I get stuck, at a certain point I want to stop and pray. At a certain point I would like to have the opportunity to sit in silence, even if it is for a moment. At a certain point I would like to come off the high and find a quiet peace in the presence of the Lord. As always, it is a balance (at least I think so) between high energy and quiet energy. There is a place for the shouting. There is a place for the quiet. And I contend both can happen in the span of one hour to ninety minutes.
Saturday, March 06, 2010
3-6-10: La Romana Day 1; who are they that we serve and live with?
Well, I’m not sure you can call this day one, since it was a travel day. The “day” started yesterday at about 12:00am (yes, mid-frickin-night) with a lot of bleary-eyed people climbing on a bus and starting the long journey to Newark, NJ. I have not been in a charter bus in a while, and I remember why. It was not very comfortable, it was cold, and it was slow. Eventually, around 4:15am we got to the airport and started the next stage of chaos and craziness. Try to get 42 people checked in when only one person is handling each person, and taking the cash for each extra bag. 42 people at two bags each makes…. 84 bags. This took a while.
The plane was just as you would expect how plane rides to be. Plane goes up. Plane goes down.
Next we had to find our way through customs and all that. Luckily, my experience playing video games made a big difference if jumping through all of the hoops, over all of the gates, and through the ring of fire.
Now for the fun part. I should let you know that when I say “fun” I am being sarcastic – this was not fun. Remember how I haven’t been in a charter bus for some time? It has been even longer since I have been in school bus. A school bus with no AC, with very little power and crammed with people. This was not fun in any manner and lasted at least two hours (maybe more). As we rode through the Dominican Republic (DR), I overheard a number of people making comments about the houses (or lack of), the incomplete projects, the people, etc. I started to think about this, are we projecting on the people of the DR as less than we are? Are we creating an us/them when we look with a disapproving glance at the way things are? Later in the evening I went with a large group of people (and nothing is worse than walking through a foreign country with a large group of people) to the big supermarket/department store/wall mart. I found myself looking down at many of the products offered in the electronics department. I found myself looking down at the food being sold, and I caught myself. Who am I to assume and decide that these things are less in value than what I have? Who am I to cast judgment?
So here is a challenge for the week: how do I work with these people, serve these people without looking down on them? How do I stand by their side and live in their lives without condemning them?
Who am I to say that my life is better?
The plane was just as you would expect how plane rides to be. Plane goes up. Plane goes down.
Next we had to find our way through customs and all that. Luckily, my experience playing video games made a big difference if jumping through all of the hoops, over all of the gates, and through the ring of fire.
Now for the fun part. I should let you know that when I say “fun” I am being sarcastic – this was not fun. Remember how I haven’t been in a charter bus for some time? It has been even longer since I have been in school bus. A school bus with no AC, with very little power and crammed with people. This was not fun in any manner and lasted at least two hours (maybe more). As we rode through the Dominican Republic (DR), I overheard a number of people making comments about the houses (or lack of), the incomplete projects, the people, etc. I started to think about this, are we projecting on the people of the DR as less than we are? Are we creating an us/them when we look with a disapproving glance at the way things are? Later in the evening I went with a large group of people (and nothing is worse than walking through a foreign country with a large group of people) to the big supermarket/department store/wall mart. I found myself looking down at many of the products offered in the electronics department. I found myself looking down at the food being sold, and I caught myself. Who am I to assume and decide that these things are less in value than what I have? Who am I to cast judgment?
So here is a challenge for the week: how do I work with these people, serve these people without looking down on them? How do I stand by their side and live in their lives without condemning them?
Who am I to say that my life is better?
Monday, March 01, 2010
Don't be Clear with your Speech
Language is appropriately vague. I say this well aware that I again and again have stressed how important language is in discerning the beliefs of a community. Yes, language has meaning but the meaning cannot be captured in a neat, short phrase. For example, the word, “saved” may meaning something specific when you look it up in the dictionary, but when used in a religious context the meaning can be very different. And even in that context the meaning is still vague. What does it mean to be saved? How is one saved? Are we talking atonement or are we talking a kind of existential understanding? Here again, language is vague and appropriately so. You may ask me if I am saved and I will say that I am, but our understandings of what it means to be saved may be very different.
Now I realize that in the very last post I talked about the functionality of language, and if you read your Austin and your Wittgenstein you will know that meaning exists in the context of a community. Yet I would say to a point. The word “saved” functions in a certain way in a religious context, but even in that context it will still vary in meaning from the individual to the individual. We do need to be careful about language becoming private and individualistic, so I would argue that a basic understanding of the word is shared, but only to that degree.
So what do we do? First, I think we would need to be honest and agree that even if people differ on meanings of words, one’s particular understanding of a word was invariably influenced by some community and is not completely private. Second, I think the vagueness of words, especially in a religious context, is necessary so that conversation can occur without parsing every little word and phrase. Hence I can preach that we are saved through Christ and not have to wonder if everyone agrees with my understanding of salvation.
Perhaps what we need to realize is that certain words have symbolic meanings which connect us with something greater (kinda Platonic). Love, Salvation, God, etc…. If this is the case then we need to continue to be sure that we are vague and thus respect the symbol.
Did that make any sense?
Now I realize that in the very last post I talked about the functionality of language, and if you read your Austin and your Wittgenstein you will know that meaning exists in the context of a community. Yet I would say to a point. The word “saved” functions in a certain way in a religious context, but even in that context it will still vary in meaning from the individual to the individual. We do need to be careful about language becoming private and individualistic, so I would argue that a basic understanding of the word is shared, but only to that degree.
So what do we do? First, I think we would need to be honest and agree that even if people differ on meanings of words, one’s particular understanding of a word was invariably influenced by some community and is not completely private. Second, I think the vagueness of words, especially in a religious context, is necessary so that conversation can occur without parsing every little word and phrase. Hence I can preach that we are saved through Christ and not have to wonder if everyone agrees with my understanding of salvation.
Perhaps what we need to realize is that certain words have symbolic meanings which connect us with something greater (kinda Platonic). Love, Salvation, God, etc…. If this is the case then we need to continue to be sure that we are vague and thus respect the symbol.
Did that make any sense?
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